QB Kneel in the 1st half - Sim or Un-Sim?

Engaged in a friendly debate in the chat today and we'd like your feedback.

Hypothetical Game Situation:

Rams leading 14-7 late in the 2nd QTR over the Eagles - about 1:40 left in the half and the Rams are about to score at the 1 yard line.

It's 2nd down and the Rams QB takes a knee to force the Eagles to burn a Time Out.

My initial reaction: "WTF was that?" So the Rams effectively waste a down because they want to kill clock and feel confident they can score regardless.(which by the way they did)

Where I take exception to this is that it's something I don't believe will or has ever happened in the history of the NFL.

So clearly it doesn't belong in a sim league and maybe we need to look at a rule. This has happened to me in the lobby a few times and stuff like this is why I only play sim games now.

I get it's a video game and allowing somebody to score too quick in the half in Madden can sometimes come back and bite you but at the same time I think we all play in a sim-style league for a reason right? You want to play "real football" or at least as close to real as possible and a lot of that has to do with play-calling and this particular play call left a bad taste.

The other owners argument - "this is just good time management strategy" Which by the way is also true...but is it Sim?

Again, both owners just wanted league opinion.

I think with M12 around the corner it's good to get feedback on stuff like this.

Feel free to leave yours.

While I can see that it may be good time management, it is definitely not sim IMO. Keep in mind that sim play is always going to be subject to opinion but I agree that it would probably never happen in the NFL.

in the 1st half of a game no one would kneel at the 1 yd line when they're about to score. no team is gonna give away a free down in the NFL in that situation. i've only seen teams kneel while in position to kick the GW FG and that's in the 2nd half.

kneeling would kinda piss me off as an opponent in that situation. i wouldn't go so far to say to ban it from this league. if they want to risk not scoring, they have the right. don't you lose 2 yards on a kneel in madden? so you go from the 1 to the 3.

If it were the end of the second half, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. The end of the first half though, I have a problem with it. The UFL is a SIM league and taking a knee as described above just wouldn't happen in the NFL. I get the strategy, but it just isn't SIM. When this happens, just get the points and play some D.

I have to agree with shameless, finz and wright here. It would probably piss me off too. It hasm'y happened to me in this league, so I cant really say how I would react but I'm sure I would be upset.

Would never happen in real life. That is very un-gentlemen like

WrightNReyes wrote:in the 1st half of a game no one would kneel at the 1 yd line when they're about to score. no team is gonna give away a free down in the NFL in that situation. i've only seen teams kneel while in position to kick the GW FG and that's in the 2nd half.

kneeling would kinda piss me off as an opponent in that situation. i wouldn't go so far to say to ban it from this league. if they want to risk not scoring, they have the right. don't you lose 2 yards on a kneel in madden? so you go from the 1 to the 3.

We need to ban the asshole that did this...

not sim

Just to play devils advocate here... in the "Rams" defense I think it is a good strategy.

In essence the "Rams" are risking a lot by taking a knee on 2nd down. They are giving up a down, and also putting pressure on their team to score on 3rd down. If I were the coach of the "Eagles" I would think I'd be ecstatic about the "Rams" taking a knee on 2nd down. This means it's 3rd and 3 and I only have to make 1 stop at the goal line instead of 2. If I make the stop, the Rams kick a FG and only add 3.

In the Rams line of thinking, they are obviously confident that they can score from 3 yards out, otherwise its a foolish call. They're also thinking that the opponent is going to A) Just let the clock keep running, or B) Burn one of their two timeouts. In a game of not only inches, but seconds, it can make all the difference in the game.

I don't know that this has never happened in the NFL but I think in the NFL teams are a lot less confidant about scoring on a 3rd and 3. QB's take knees all the time to burn the clock, so if your goal is to burn the clock, then what is wrong about taking one in the 2nd quarter. Hell, if you really wanted to burn clock in the 1st quarter, would taking a knee then be "un-sim" because it is out of the ordinary?

Some would also say to avoid kneeling and just run it off tackle or sideline to sideline. Doing someone like this is basically the same thing, intentionally refusing to score to wind down the clock, and you also risk fumbling the ball or something else happening on the play that could cause a turnover.

Just my .02.

Provided by Sway, I like how they keep saying brilliant at the end....

aaannd another one....

both 4th quarter scenarios... certainly a coach's call here, but not very sim to give up an opportunity at points in the first half versus looking to close out the game in the second half. i look at it this way... 7 points on the board is never gauranteed. shoot, even a chip shot FG is never truly a gaurantee (although it generally is in madden). a team is going to attempt to score and give the ball back to their opponent versus take the knee and gamble at settling for 3 because they'd much rather have the opportunity to be up by a TD vs a FG. either way, the opponent is going to get the ball back and have an opportunity to score. so gambling on having them burn their timeout is a coach's call, yes, but not very realistic in the 2nd qtr...just this man's opinion.

Despite both vids being the 4th quarter the philosophy is the same. Kneel down to run the clock/burn a timeout and keep the ball out of the other team's hands.

And the fact that he was on the 1 means he can't run to keep the clock moving since he's going to score.

Sway wrote:Despite both vids being the 4th quarter the philosophy is the same. Kneel down to run the clock/burn a timeout and keep the ball out of the other team's hands.

And the fact that he was on the 1 means he can't run to keep the clock moving since he's going to score.

Sway, the philosophy isn't the same. In one scenario you can keep the ball and run out the clock to win and end the game. In the other scenario it is the 2nd qtr of a close game. It's 2nd down and the D has 2 timeouts left. They are getting the ball back with over a minute to play regardless in the 2nd qtr and still have the whole 2nd half to play. The situation are completely different.

Not sure if sim or not its strategy i suppose. I certainly wouldn't do it in the first half. However I have ran the ball and purposely ran into the defense NOT to score so its sorta the same thing. But i'd say taking a knee regardless if it's legit or not is still bush league in that situation.

Unsim. Would never, ever happen in the NFL.

Allday28 wrote:Unsim. Would never, ever happen in the NFL.

You have to remember though, just because something does or doesn't happen in the NFL it may not be reflected well in Madden the video game.

As we discussed earlier, teams run fake field goals, fake punts, onside kicks, etc in the NFL and it's not frowned upon. So not everything you see in the NFL is considered sim in a Madden Football League.

You have to keep this fact in mind, that although we try and emulate the NFL as best as we can, there are certain restrictions when dealing with a video game replica of said product.

You have to keep this fact in mind, that although we try and emulate the NFL as best as we can, there are certain restrictions when dealing with a video game replica of said product.

Right GCG...sounds like your compelling arguments above and videos that have nothing to do with "said play" have really swayed public opinion on this!

The examples of fake fgs, punts, onside, etc are examples of things done in the NFL that we do not for whatever reason. One example is the fake punt run on 4th and short that was highly successful in m10 and m11.

The kneeling is an example of something that is never done in the NFL (kneeling in the end of half at the 1 yard line). So if it is never done, then it is simple not to do it. Im sure anybody can come up with an example of things that nfl doesnt do that madden players do in a video game, but this situation has nothing to do with gameplay, physics, glitches, buggy AI or any other issues we have with this game.

Two different situations.

I don't agree with it in the first half. Both the videos were second half things and MJDs almost bit the Jags in the ass. The only acceptable knee in the first half is deep in your on your side so not to fumble or throw a pick. I have never seen a team realistically do that in the first to many variable that could cost the game.

Both video example where with the lead or to kick a FG (which Scobbe almost shanked) for the lead. Bth to win the game in the second half.

My vote is completely unsim and really poor sportsmanship.

Who did it?

nrenard wrote:The only acceptable knee in the first half is deep in your on your side so not to fumble or throw a pick.

^^^ my opinion is this ^^^

nrenard wrote:Who did it?

GCG

nrenard wrote:My vote is completely unsim and really poor sportsmanship.

Ok I'm all for camraderie but come on..it's not poor sportsmanship by any stretch of the imagination. He took some knees to try and run the clock down so his opponent couldn't mount a drive before the half, what a slap in the face.

I'm trying to pretend this wasn't GCG so I can remain unbiased on this, since I didn't have a clue it was gcg in the first place when I deemed what happened acceptable.

It's not something that I personally would ever do, but I don't see the problem with it.

Basically, the person is just reducing their chances of scoring on that drive. If they want to do that, that's their choice.

I didn't know it was GCG, but now that I do....MORE CHEESE!

Should have scored and played defense in my opinion...on offense following the score I would have kept it fairly vanilla, unless I got a good return. I am not one to try to give up two scores before the half.

Damn next we are going to allow people to run goalline on 1st and 10 on the 50.

BTW Ant - it was a lame attempt to pretend like it was a lobby issue